#9 Belonging + Boundaries

Apr 18

Listen to this episode on

*****

In this episode, Dr. Mona speaks with guest Kami Orange, a boundary coach and author of the book, Say The Thing. Kami identifies as a fat, autistic, queer, white cis woman. She has 17 years experience helping people set boundaries and speaking up in defense for others. Kami has been featured in Buzzfeed, CNN, Upworthy, morning television, podcasts and has over 300,000 followers on social media.

First, Kami shares the backstory of her book Say The Thing. She always wanted to write a book, and in 2022 someone reached out to her from Hay House Publishing and asked if she had ever considered writing a book. Right after that, she posted a video that went viral with 2 million views. So she put together some initial chapters of the book for Hay House, and they offered her a publishing deal. She took a break from editing videos while she was writing in 2023, and now she is back at the videos and loves seeing people reading her book.

Next, Kami and Dr. Mona discuss setting boundaries on social media. Kami explains that there is a sampling issue with social media. For example, when she was working at an electrical company, some technicians complained that homeowners couldn't do any housework themselves. However, they were only interacting with the homeowners who couldn’t figure it out by themselves and that was why they called the electrical company. There were lots of homeowners that did figure it out and the technicians weren’t interacting with them. The same is true online. There is a sampling issue with people being mean on social media. Mean people are overrepresented because only a very small number of people leave mean comments when so many nice people like and share the video. There is also an online disinhibition effect where we forget that there are people hiding behind social media. Kami also states that she does not have to feed into mean people’s rage dopamine needs, so she liberally blocks and deletes people.

Dr. Mona then shares a story where she took her Egyptian dad to the doctor in 2016 and a group of people in the waiting room heard her dad’s Egyptian accent and started loudly talking about immigrants coming to the U.S. and “taking people’s jobs.” Dr. Mona had a freeze, fawn, and flight response, where she smiled at them and then ran away to the bathroom. The ironic thing about the story is that the doctor who the patients were waiting to see was from India. Dr. Mona didn’t feel safe in the moment and carried shame for not standing up for her dad or herself. Kami says you first have to consider your safety in these moments and consider if it’s even safe to speak up. There is no shame in not speaking up because that may be the safest thing to do. There are four roads, or responses, to these experiences. The first is avoid, where you can stay silent and that is a valid option. The next is a really big response, which could be complaining to the doctor and having them kicked out. The next two are either indirect or direct. An example of an indirect response in this situation is turning to her dad and saying loudly, “I’m so glad that this doctor immigrated to our country into rural communities who need them.” A direct example is asking the group questions like: “Are you looking at me?”, “Can I help you with something?”, “Would you like to have a conversation with me?” Kami also points out that it may not be Dr. Mona’s job there to solve the issue, but something the doctor can train his staff to handle better, because there is power with the bystanders. This reframe is also not passive aggressive, but it is an indirect message that communicates very politely the boundary. They also discuss how cultures, regionalism, and demographics can play a role in the boundaries we have and how to set them.

In addition, they talk about how setting boundaries can be a bridge to belonging. Kami shares the story of her roommate who left droplets on the toilet seat. She had an awkward boundary conversation with him, but after that, she continued to be warm, kind, and positive in their interactions. This showed her roommate that she liked him, they were still friends, and she would continue to like her roommate.

In her book, Kami includes boundary scripts. While most boundary books contents are organized by relationships, Kami organized hers by public and private conversations, in the moment or later, because that’s what she’s found most effective and relevant to her experience. Boundary-setting language takes practice, but people can look up the resources in the book and also come up with their own boundary scripts. Kami also encourages people not to apologize for setting boundaries, because we live in an increasingly diverse world. She gives a simple example. If someone is from a family where everybody knows when somebody sniffs, that indicates the trash stinks and needs to be taken out. If this person has a partner who does not come from a family that has the same cue, when they sniff, their partner won’t take out the trash, and that can lead to frustration. The more diverse the world becomes, the more explicit we need to be. Not everyone is from the same background, so we need to have those conversations for belonging. She also believes people get angry because of micro rejections – they feel that maybe we don’t belong or maybe we aren’t connected because they have to explain something that feels obvious to them. However, they do belong but we need to claim it instead of seeking it. When we set boundaries, we claim our own self belonging and staying true to ourselves.

Lastly, Kami discusses how she noticed that so many people who aren’t oriented toward belonging are not worried about rejecting others and will just say things that are unkind or hurt people’s feelings. The only experience many people have with boundaries are with such people, who she calls “jerks.” Therefore, many people think if they set a boundary, they will also be a jerk and be mean. It is possible to set boundaries in a super kind and loving way that builds relationships. When we set boundaries, we say, “You matter to me and I matter to me, is this something you can do with me?” The goal is to find a solution that works for both of us and navigate that with kindness, and validate both people. In conclusion, Kami shares that belonging to her means recognizing and acknowledging the sense of connection and spark of life that each of us has, and figuring out how to nurture that.

*****

1:12 - Dr. Mona introduces today’s guest, Kami Orange.

2:57 - How Kami’s book, Say The Thing, came about.

5:01 - How do we set boundaries on social media?

11:51 - The four roads or types of responses.

20:50 - Setting boundaries can be a bridge to belonging.

25:24 - Creating boundary scripts for yourself.

33:25 - Creating a solution that works for both of us.

38:43 - What does belonging mean to you?

*****

Learn more about Kami Orange

Follow Kami on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.